WildBlue Internet Catch-22 and contacts
Ok. Here we go. This will be a very long post. I’ll let our capable blog host decide whether this post needs to be broken into smaller segments and which blog category it belongs in.
From a personal perspective, our initial goal was to apply pressure to Wildblue so they would come out and fix their system. This is no longer our goal. We now want a full refund of all money spent on Wildblue to date, full and complete release from contract and no further dealings with Wildblue for the remainder of our lives. We were not, and still are not, specifically seeking ways to punish Wildblue, but if that happens, Hey, Too Bad, they’ve brought it upon themselves.
It occurred to me last night that there may just be a way to apply a significant amount of pressure to Wildblue and force them to start dealing forthrightly and quickly with disaffected subscribers either without resorting to formal legal action, or by making formal Class Action filing the end of a process, not the start of one. In fact, the more I think about it, the better I like the concept. Try this on for size.
Those of us who are the proud owners of slow, intermittent or dead Wildblue systems, whatever our number may be, are trapped in Wildblue’s version of Catch-22. That being “We have no parts available to repair your system, and even if we did, the replacement parts would be no better than the parts you already have, and even if these replacement parts were of better quality, we still use installers who do substandard installations.” That’s the first half of Catch-22. The second half is that from what we’ve been able to gather, Wildblue is still installing new subscribers using whatever existing unreliable parts and substandard installers they have! Here’s why.
Large blocks of Wildblue stock are owned by several large corporations, I’ll tell you their names in a minute. These corporations expect, some would say demand, a robust return on their investments. New subscriber installs represent cash inflows, revenue, not just right now but in the future as well. Remember, we all had to sign up for a minimum of 12 months. Each new subscriber and the revenue they represent help Wildblue drive their stock price higher. Repairs to existing installs represent cash outflows, expenses, not in the future but right now. Every repair forces Wildblue to spend cash right now which obviously weakens the company’s stock. There’s less hardware for new installs and less money for the investors.
By installing new subscribers at as fast a rate as possible and locking them into 12 month contracts Wildblue can inform all the Wall Street analysts that subscriber growth rates and revenue forecasts are increasing. Result: Stock goes up, investors are happy. By repairing existing deficient subscriber systems at a low and slow pace, and by denying subscriber contract releases, Wildblue is under-representing; you could even say disguising, the true scope and costs of system deficiencies from those same Wall Street analysts. Result: stock continues to go up, investors still happy, but now a disaster is brewing. Wildblue can keep the Catch-22 going only until one of two things happen.
The first is the very reason our host created this blog, to gather disaffected subscribers into a unified group and file a Class Action in a court of law. But maybe there is an alternative, and as I said at the beginning of this post, the more I think about it the more I like it.
That same group of disaffected subscribers, acting individually, can still generate a great deal of pressure, as if they were banded together, and put Wildblue on trial in three different courts. First is the court of corporate governance. Second is the court of financial disclosure. Third is the court of public opinion. The media!
Here’s how we’re proceeding. If this approach appeals to you, feel free to replicate it.
There are two senior executives at the helm of Wildblue. They are:
David J. Leonard
Chief Executive Officer
Wildblue Communications, Inc.
Building One
5970 Greenwood Plaza Blvd
Greenwood Village, CO 80111
Fax: 720.554.7500
Fone: 720.554.7400
Kenneth G. Carroll
President and Chief Operating Officer
Wildblue Communications, Inc.
Building One
5970 Greenwood Plaza Blvd
Greenwood Village, CO 80111
Fax: 720.554.7500
Fone: 720.554.7400
We have sent via certified mail, and faxed, a letter to these two individuals outlining our dissatisfying and unacceptable 86 day experience with Wildblue noting their apparent inability to repair the system, their unwillingness to provide timely billing adjustment and their unresponsiveness to repeated requests for full refund and immediate contract termination. We also noted in the letter that copies have been sent to the Illinois Attorney General’s Office of Consumer Protection, to our credit card company instructing them to block any further charges from Wildblue and to the Denver Better Business Bureau. http://denver.bbb.org
We are now also going to send copies of, and fax the letter to the seven members of Wildblue’s Board of Directors. They are:
Mark D. Carleton
Wildblue Board Chairman &
Senior Vice President
Liberty Media Corp.
1200 Liberty Blvd.
Englewood, CO 80112
Fax: 720.875.5401
Fone: 720.875.5400
Gary S. Howard
Executive Vice President, COO &
Director (retired)
Liberty Media Corp.
1200 Liberty Blvd.
Englewood, CO 80112
Fax: 720.875.5401
Fone: 720.875.5400
Liberty Media Corporation owns 32% of Wildblue stock.
The next two Board Members are:
David McGlade
Chief Executive Officer
Intelsat
3400 International Drive, NW
Washington, DC 20008
Fax: 202.944.7898
Fone: 202.944.6800
Phillip L. Spector
Executive Vice President, General Counsel
Intelsat
3400 International Drive, NW
Washington, DC 20008
Fax: 202.944.7898
Fone: 202.944.6800
Intelsat owns a block of Wildblue stock as well. I don’t know how much…yet.
The next two Board Members are:
Walter S. Segaloff
Don’t have any info…yet!
B. R. Phillips III
President and Chief Executive Officer
National Rural Telecommunications Cooperative
2121 Cooperative Way
Herndon, VA 20171
Fax: 703.464.5300
Fone: 703.787.0874
Mr. Segaloff was a co-founder of KaStar Satellite Communications and was involved in the early development of Wildblue.
Mr. Phillips’ firm, the National Rural Telecommunications Cooperative owns a block of Wildblue stock. I don’t know how much…yet. The NRTC partners with our local Rural Electric Cooperatives across the nation to provide rural citizens with modern, high quality telco, tv and internet services of all kinds, hardline, fixed wireless, mobile wireless and satcom systems like Wildblue.
Before I mention the name of the final member of Wildblue’s Board of Directors I’m going to mention three other names that we are sending and faxing our letter of dissatisfaction to. They are:
Dr. John C. Malone
Chairman
Liberty Media Holding Corp.
12300 Liberty Blvd.
Englewood, CO 80112
Fax: 720.875.5401
Fone: 720.875.5400
Gregory B. Maffei
President and Chief Executive Officer
Liberty Media Holding Corp
12300 Liberty Blvd
Englewood, CO 80112
Fax: 720.875.5401
Fone: 720.875.5400
As stated above Liberty Media controls 32% of Wildblue stock and holds two seats on Wildblue’s Board of Directors. The two individuals who are the primary recipients of our letter, Mr. Leonard and Mr. Carroll both have positions at Liberty Media in their backgrounds. We believe this is an indication that Liberty Media is the majority shareholder and has injected at least four of its people into Wildblue to watch over Liberty Media’s investment. So we figured, why not let the heads of Liberty Media know how we feel as well.
There is one other firm name that surfaced during our financial investigation, as owning a block of Wildblue stock. We’re sending and faxing a copy of our letter to them as well, why not. I don’t have the name of the specific Senior Partner that is in charge of their Wildblue holdings…yet. They are a Venture Capital firm named:
Kleiner, Perkins, Caufield and Byers
2750 Sand Hill Road
Menlo Park, CA 94025
Fax: 650.2330300
Fone: 650.233.2750
The final member of Wildblue’s Board of Directors and the last individual to receive a copy of our dissatisfaction letter, at least here in Round One, is:
Thomas E. Moore.
Principal
TimesArrow
4600 South Syracuse, Suite 900
Denver, CO 80237
Fax: 303.256.6205
Fone: 303.256.6655
www.timesarrow.net
Tom Moore had a dream. He wanted to be able to leverage the DOCSYS(tm) modem platform he helped create and patent to bring broadband to the millions of citizens in America that were disenfranchised from broadband access due solely to their rural location. Tom brought that dream to life as one of the original co-founders of Wildblue in 1998. He served as Wildblue’s President, CEO and Director from 1998 to 2005. He still holds a seat on Wildblue’s Board. If Wildblue has a father, it’s Tom Moore. If anyone has the right to grab current Wildblue Management by the ear, drag them out behind the woodshed and slam a hockey stick up side their heads, it’s Tom Moore. It certainly appears that for a goodly number of Wildblue subscribers, Tom Moore’s dream has turned in to our nightmare.
The question devolves to this. For those of you old enough to remember Watergate, it will sound vaguely familiar. How much do the members of Wildblue’s Board of Directors and its major Investors know, and when did they know it? How informed are they about what certainly appears to be system-wide hardware failures in the form of water logged TRIA’s, system-wide hardware shortages, system-wide shoddy installations and a growing system-wide subscriber base that feel victimized and want out, and want out NOW! The rules of Corporate Governance have changed. Members of Boards of Directors can no longer just show up and collect their fees. Board members are now held to much higher degrees of accountability for the actions of the managements at companies on which they serve.
If enough of us send legitimate, well reasoned complaint letters to Wildblue Senior Management and include Board Members and major shareholders on our complaint letter distribution lists, something will get done. How many of us is “enough?” I don’t know, but if I were a Board member and received even 10 such letters, I’d sure as hell be firing some pointed questions at Wildblue Management during the next Board meeting.
The material above constitutes Round One. And just to complete my thoughts…
Round Two would consist of re-sending and re-faxing the original complaint letter, with a new short cover page, something like “We’re still waiting”, to all the same people mentioned above and in addition, now send and fax the letter to the various Wall Street analysts who cover Wildblue. And, you include the names of the analysts on everyone’s copy. I don’t have a list of analyst’s names…yet!
Round Three would consist of re-sending and re-faxing to everyone in Round One and Round Two and in addition, now send and fax the complaint letter to 60 Minutes, CNN, Drudge, Forbes Online, the FCC, the SEC…once again, you include these new names on everyone’s copy. You get the idea. We just keep widening the distribution and at some point the dam will break.
I’m fairly certain there are a number of competent and reputable investigative journalists and investigative news organizations all across the country who would be very interested in a situation such as ours. We have the necessary tools to accomplish this right here on our desk tops. The internet is many things, some good some bad. One thing the internet IS exceptionally good at is viral distribution. We’ve all received links from friends to video, audio and text that have exploded in the internet cloud and replicated rapidly. A viral Wildblue complaint targeted at the Wildblue subscriber base and delivered through a reputable online investigative source would almost certainly generate a great deal of interest and visibility and draw more dissatisfied subscribers out of the darkness.
Round Four is, of course, all of the above and a formal Class Action Filing.
I’ll apologize again for the length of this post but the subject matter dictated the length. I wanted to fully inform anyone who’s searching for a way, short of formal legal filings, to pressure Wildblue into addressing our collective concerns. I’m also comfortable posting all this information in the public internet cloud. All the information gathered is public anyway. And what if Wildblue management is monitoring this blog, what can they do? Tell all their Board members and major investors;
“Hey, you guys are gonna be getting a bunch of letters from some distraught and deranged subscribers. Don’t worry about them, just toss them.”
Any Board member or Investor with a brain and a pulse, hearing that type of comment from management, is going to read each of those letters very carefully, if for no other reason than to make sure they don’t have any personal liability or exposure. I honestly believe if even 10 or 20 disaffected subscribers engage Wildblue Senior Management, Wildblue Board members and major Wildblue Investors in a documented complaint chain, the company will have no choice but to start dealing with our issues, and quickly. Because if existing subscriber complaints start gaining media visibility, new subscriber install rates will begin to slow, possibly dramatically.
Result: Stock price drops, Investors get pissed, holes get dug in the desert and somebody gets whacked!
Oh, and we just might get our money back too! It’s worth a try.
Regards
Jake
Very informative post Jake,
I have taken the BBB route but have not had any luck with them – WB just keeps responding about how I should call technical support.
My last response said something to the tune of “Why should I call Technical Support? I unhooked my modem and my satellite dish is currently being used as a very expensive birdbath, because it surely was not any good as its original purchased intent. Unless your technical support department is going to refund my money, pick up this equipment, and release me from the contract, I have no intention of calling them.”
Maybe we should all start sending letters to all the people on your post
Thanks ADMIN.
I appreciate the comments. I agree, BBB does not possess a big enough club to do any damage. But if every angry Wildblue subscriber puts them in the loop, at some point a critical mass will be achieved and they’ll be forced to act or stand at risk of losing THEIR credibility, and no doubt some funding as well.
“Maybe we should all start sending letters to all the people on your post”
That’s precisely the idea. The letters don’t have to be elegant, hell, use a form letter. Just be polite (in spite of your anger) and factual. The members of a Board of Directors seldom get direct mail and faxes from lowly little customers. Even if you use a form letter, by mailing it to everyone listed in the post, you will have done something very few people get to do.
You will have surprised a bunch of rich people who didn’t think you knew they existed.
Isn’t that worth a couple of bucks of postage?
Regards,
Jake
I have sent certified mail to David Leonard and emailed him. He has never replied, although he accepts read receipts. I have had nothing but hell with Wildblue, from accounting to speed issues. His email address is: dleonard@wildbluecorp.com. (it may be .net, my contacts are on a different computer. WILDBLUE IS WILD BULL B@$% it simply SUCKS.
I am seriously interested in any actual class actions that may be currently active or to be initiated. I have a serious breach of contract. if anyone is actually doing anything.
you can contact me via this board. Just let me know where to sign.
I am SO HAPPY I found this site! While I was on vacation recently, some one hacked into my Wild Blue network and uploaded TONS of data, 24/7 for several days, exceeding my FAP limit. I have been trying for several days to find out if anyone at Wild Blue, Got Sky (my local WB reseller), or NRTC ( who wholesales WB to Got Sky) has any authority to do ANYTHING! Each person I talk to says they have no authority to resolve my problem, no one they know has any authority, and in some cases, claim they have no direct supervisor for me to escalate the problem to. I am ecstatic at getting a list of execs for the company to aim my complaints toward! I don’t think they will actually do anything, based upon what I have found at this, and several other sites, but at least I can raise the stakes now that I know what state they are based in.
Alex
And here I thought that I was the only one having problems with Wild Blue service. First of all, feel free to email me at any time. The two differences between Wild Blue and dial up DSL is that Wild Blue is up all the time and dial up is faster. When I get email it states, “you are getting 39 bits of 24 megabits”. I mow my lawn and it states, “you are getting 60 bits of 24 megabits. They guarantee up to 1.5Meg down. 39 bits is up to 1.5Meg. There is no help or hope. When I was out for 39 days straight I had to call Mr. Moore to get service restored. The world needs to know how bad this service is. Keep in mind I tried Hugesnet DSL and it was worse.
Call or email questions or comments.
Donald E. McCarty
I signed up for WB and canceld the same day. What they told me on the phone,and what there “Oh by the way in case our salesperson did not cover these issuses here they are” were different. They lied to me from the start. I am still waiting for their equiment to arrive so I can send it back.I am so glad I did not get involved with them. Anyone who is thinking of going with this Company please “THINK AGAIN”!! thanks to eveyone who has taken the time to express their feelings.
Robert Wilmesherr
I was one of the unlucky ones. I got Wildblue and when they came to install it the router was defective. So the guy had to come out the next day with a new router. I HATE WILDBLUE!! I feel lied to cheated and I feel like the bandwidth monitor cheats you. I am on the 12500 MB download plan. Now I was at 81% before I downloaded a 585MB video. Well 4 hours later it finishes and I’m at 92%. How does that add up?
Here is the crappy support email which I know is BS because I was not online the day before.
Dear Valued WildBlue Customer,
Usage is calculated over a 30 day period and is usually delayed about one day for calcuation.
This chart is updated periodically and may not reflect your most recent usage. Please use this only as a guide to help monitor your usage totals.
For FAP information, please reference the following link:
———————————————
Now the spelling is wrong even know they have spell check in emails. And as I said I was not online the day before. You can see how much the support rep did not care.
19 Aug 2010 I reside in a rural area in CA and in 2008 I subscribed to wild blue internet service, received faster internet service than all previous servers, BUT in the last few months the service has been so slow and what really riles me is while online I get a (NOT RESPOUNDING). The calls to tech svc have had me disconnect the box, wait, then reconnect, so for awhile the browser works. This happens @ and every time I log in, spend more time playing this poker machine while waiting than online. Request online repair service and am told the connection has been repaired to reconnect.
This evening called wildblue tech svc, woman stated everything looked just fine on her end. Just as soon as I locate another server that can a customer can contact directly for complaints instead of tech svc. am going to quit wildblue. It was expensive to install but am just plain outright disgusted with all this waiting for that NOT RESPONDING to respond. Will go with a class action. LET US GO WITH IT.
Ok, I live in a rural area of californa where verizon dsl has limited coverage and there is a waiting list… mediaone dsl is also supposed to have coverage but according to the last rep i talked to they havent covered the area since 2001… I was without internet and had to use the yellow pages calling every possible internet provider and finally found one that would cover me in my remote location… seemed rather costly but they had me by the short hairs so I agreed to an install… was told after install about the FAP and thought well, as long as i have a decent connect where I can chat with my friends online i was happy… this isnt the case.. I keep getting dced from all 3 major IM services, websites take forever to download often timing out or not responding at all, and I ran a speed test 4 times the 1st day and found nowhere NEAR their claimed 512 kbs (1st test was 64 kb/sm test 2 and 3 both reported 33.x kb/s and test 4 reported 16 kb/s).. this is slower than dialup! I immediately called wildblue and gave them a good peice of my mind and told them that I REQUIRE them to deliver “high speed internet” or to immediately release me from my contract. they hung up. I wont waste my time on any further calls, I will simply not put any money onto the spare prepaid CC i gave them, disconnect their hardware from my pc and pack it into a box and order dialup internet at 9.99 a month until my name comes up on the verizon dsl waiting list.
I called about the FAP because I went from 60% of my upload to 97% of my upload limit in one day. Mind you this was a day when I was not home or online. Interesting thought, aye? I had violated it already, not even knowing that it existed and never having been told or shown that it existed. I told her that I don’t understand why my upload is so high, I go on facebook, check emails, use it for my work (finding teaching materials/lesson plans, etc) and for my son to play games. She said that the streaming games from my 4 year old’s games is what is doing is. She said “just be careful what you do and can’t……” Can’t game. Can’t chat. Can’t cam, can’t can’t can’t. I wonder what I can do on this service?
At any rate, I asked her why when it was originally reset it was only set to 40% if the upload. She said that 40% of the upload limit is used by their equipment updating. I said, “so in theory i could leave the country for a 30 period and would not zero out the limit?” she said no, not unless you totally shut down the modem and all connections, and then you would only get down to 3-5% because of how their system is set up to communicate with the modems.
So… I am paying $80/month because I want the best service so I can do online classes, work, and entertain myself and my child. I cannot do any of these things, and the money I am paying for seems to be sucked up in usage that their equipment is apparently doing without my knowledge or consent. Where is this ethical, fair, or legal?
It’s truly insane that you pay 100% of a monthly fee, Wild Blue hoards 40% for themselves, but you only have access to 40% normal bandwidth usage per month available.
After you hit 80% usage, you’re slowed down to the point that it is almost unusable.
I say almost, but occasionally I can get on to check email. However, I can’t even access my local weather on-line, it is slowed down that much!
With Wild Blue, you only get 40 cents on the dollar for what you are actually paying. Go figure. How can this even be legal? Has the FCC investigated this?!
Satellite Internet insists on operating in the dark ages. I pay almost $100/month for the biggest package and it has only demonstrated just how limited my Internet access is. Very disappointing. My guess is that Wild Blue hoards their broadband for their business/government clients while residential users shoulder a disproportionate share of revenue; of course, limited on their ability to use the Internet as it was intended to be utilized. There is no integrity or reason to any of it.
Worse yet, if you actually run a rural business (as we do) and try and call the business suppliers for Wild Blue, you’ll get the endless run-around. They tell you to call Wild Blue; Wild Blue tells you to call their business suppliers. Meanwhile the archaic so-called Fair Access Policy will drive you absolutely insane!
In this day and age, Wild Blue is simply obsolete and strangely seems proud of it. I have yet to find anyone at the company who has the slightest amount of sympathy for our troubles.
Knowing what I know now, I would never recommend the “disservice” to anyone. Hopefully some other competitors will exploit Wild Blue’s weaknesses and run them out of the market.
It’s simple: Ineffective satellite internet companies need not apply!
well ur tech just show up here at my house and found nothing wrong with r speed.wow..which we have told wildblue time and time again we don’t have a problem durning the day only in the evening & nite time hours…58k to 78k..and yall think we r going to happy with that,,,how dumb do u think we r..anyway the tech calls to report what he finds and the first thing wildblue saids go to a higher pack.NO!.so this is what am going todo contact bbb and who every else i can contact to c if we can get wildblue 4 lieing about speed & service and this so call 30day rollover which yall say it’s day to day or today then 30 days from to day.am not a itt person ok but that will make ur head hurt listen to that. but heres the catch u never go back to zero explain that one ok…been with wildblue what now 4 2yrs getting very sick of what yall r doing to me.
your costomer
grady blaylock
wildblue internet sucks hughesnet is a lot more reliable and i am going to cancel
By far the worst company that I have ever dealt with, bar none!!! I’m rural and have no choice to get web access. The others are no better! Guess what, we are rural, don’t have cable and so all updates for computers, phones, electronics, software have to be downloaded via Wildblue. They are the “soup” nazi on bandwidth so we can’t even watch movies via Netflix or Blockbuster (to much bandwidth) and the nazi’s move in. We are between a rock and a hard place with no alternatives!!! Again, worst company ever!!!
Sadly I’m reading this using a cobbled-together Internet connection involving my cell phone and some tinfoil. Why? Because WildBlue isn’t connecting today. Again.
Does anyone know who the current President, CEO, and BoD may be for WildBlue? I found this blog whilst searching for that particular bit of info so I can steer them to the WildBlue Facebook page to see the vitriol and unhappiness WB customers are spewing forth…
First off let me say I hate Wild Blue. Have had them about 3 years. (no other choice til now) We have them “bundled” I guess with At&t so when they installed they gave me an at&t email addy. I have NEVER seen a bill on paper or online so I have no idea what’s going on except that they take my money. On the rare occasion I did get an email from WB there was no way to sign into my account and check on anything. I called to get a WB email addy and they said I couldn’t b/c of At&t. At&t!? they don’t have my bill!!! So, now that I want to cancel….I’m going to be in BIG trouble huh! You know WB will say I have to check with At&t, At&t will say noooo WB. So really, what do I do? After everything I’ve read on this wonderful site, I’m pretty nervous. Any suggestions how to cancel and not let them rake me over the coals?
Cancelled Hughes after 7 years —could not communicate with gang in New Delhi—signed up with WildBlues biggest package—had a sat outage for 24 hours yesterday—-don’t these people have a standby plan B for such an event?????—they are starting to act like Hughes—now what????—BTW I live 90 miles NNE of Amarillo Tx—way past BFE—and—am a more than active daytrader—-yesterdays outage cost me $7000—you don’t want the details—-Uncle Bill
Charlie Ergen- CEO & founder of Dish Network and EchoStar Satellit bought Wildblue 2011. Smart businessman but horrible ethics and poor employee morale he give to his employees. Vulgar mouth and yells at his execs.
Look, I work for my local cable company and I just moved to a rural area were my work does not cover and would cost me $10,000 to get connected. The people we bought the house from had DSL but Verizon would not connect me because they are supposedly doing upgrades to the CO. I’m coming from 16mbs down to 1mb (I had free Internet). I know what I got into when I signed the dotted line. If you don’t like their service or any other companies service there is nothing that says you have to use them. You always have a choice of not having the Internet. Plus don’t forget you choose where you live. If you Lost $7,000 in one day may be you should look to move to a place that provides service you need. Pulse there is no service/utility provider that can guaranty 100% service all the time. Unfortunately things come up.
Plus if you are using the Internet for your business you should always have a back up provider like Dial Up.
Hello guys. I have wildblue. I work in IT. I live out of the middle of no where. Before you go off on wildblue. Let me explain something to you. Speeds vary cause of how many are on at a time. Just like a web site. More on that web site slower it is. Wildblue by far is not perfect. But no company is. Wildblue is updating ever day. There is new information on satellite Internet every day.
You are not on cable threw fiber optic. Witch I’m use too. Satellite internet has to be cared from your computer to satellite and to server satellite. And back down to your satellite and back to computer and modem. Trust one day maybe there will be a faster satellite Internet. But it’s go to cost cause how much it cost to put up in space and also equipment cost lots to make and keep up. One day it will be cheap. Just research online. Wildblue and vitasat just launched a new satellite so you can watch web cams Netflix YouTube. Anything new will have problems. Last note wildblue offers dial up at no charge . Thanks